MORE WEIGHT LOSS TALK

[Cari aka “Rinse & rePeat”]

For those who know me on the RPF, they know I am an expert at losing weight. I talk about the difference between losing pounds verses losing weight, and that is a big difference. My weight loss threads were some of my most popular threads on the RPF, and for good reason, people are overweight and struggling to lose weight. Over my many years I have been on so many diets, and while some worked, all of them had me eventually gaining my weight back.  After achieving my weight loss goals I found myself fearful of every bite making me fat, and that very thing always happened! I always found myself back to square one, having to do it all over again, and with each time the weight was more stubborn to lose. When I finally found Ray Peat’s work is when I realized why every diet doesn’t work, there is just more to it than just food.  Timing of food, food parings and cooking methods are all part of the weight loss equation. This thread is now a new and improved extension of my other weight loss threads. I knew a lot when I started the others, but I have mastered this now. It feels wonderful to never worry about my weight, like I did. If I find myself eating too much fat, too many starches or PUFA laden restaurant meals I know just what to do to get to where I like to be and quickly. I am happy to share that valuable knowledge, so I have created a link on this website called “My Everyday”, which is where I will post updates of things I eat, or do, or whatever, for those who want to know how I am losing weight and keeping it off, the healthy and more delicious way! We can all discuss this “heavy” subject here and there!

[Cari aka “Rinse & rePeat”]

“STARCH and GLUCOSE efficiently stimulate insulin secretion, and that accelerates the disposition of glucose, activating its conversion to glycogen and fat, as well as its oxidation. Fructose inhibits the stimulation of insulin by glucose, so this means that eating ordinary sugar, sucrose (a disaccharide, consisting of glucose and fructose), in place of starch, will reduce the tendency to store fat. Eating “complex carbohydrates,” rather than sugars, is a reasonable way to promote obesity. Eating starch, by increasing insulin and lowering the blood sugar, stimulates the appetite, causing a person to eat more, so the effect on fat” -Ray Peat

[Zack Vegas]

One of the pubmed reviews I read, from 1992, was talking about the well known markers that are changed in obesity.  Cortisol is generally elevated.  Testosterone is lower in men, but slightly elevated in women.  There were some others mentioned in that review, but those were the big ones that stuck out in my mind.  I know Haidut was always talking about elevated cortisol in obesity.

One of the most impressive studies I saw was a long term study in hypogonadal men who were started on testosterone and also overweight.  They lost an average of 50 pounds, and kept that off for 5 years.  A later study (of the same group) showed they continued at the lower weight for 10 years.  I also saw a meta analysis of various testosterone protocols in overweight men, lasting from 6 months to at least 5 years.  Some men stayed the same weight, although most groups lost weight, and in the area of 20 pounds or more, at that.  Even the men who stayed at the same weight lost centimeters around their waist.

In addition to this, so called “viceral fat” (aka belly fat) is the most problematic, and generally the most unsightly, too.  But….. is visceral “fat” really fat?  Ascetis is known as fluid buildup in the abdomen.  Visceral fat generally comes with elevated inflamatory markers.  Could it be a sign of fatty liver?  An inflamed intestine?  Excess bacteria and endotoxin entering the bloodstream?  Poor digestion?

Mike Fave also went over a paper from 2003 called “Decreased energy levels can cause and sustain obesity,” by Wlodek and Gonzales.  They argue that the prime cause isn’t overeating per se, but a block in the Krebs Cycle (specifically at the Aconitase Enzyme), which leads to most food getting stored as fat, while at the same time creating a low energy state for the person.  I think overactive FAS is usually seen in obsesity, and since Palmitic Acid is the Fatty Acid stored, this could be a reason why high levels of Palmitic Acid in tissues is associated with things like cancer and heart disease, as overactive FAS is seen in all of them.

Of course, Peat showed us how excess PUFA can slow the metabolism and be problamatic, and Brad Marshall has been finding studies showing that MUFA might be just as fattening, maybe even more so.  And to boot, there are also some Amino Acids that are low in obesity (especially Glycine and Taurine), while others are higher.

Keeping all these things in mind could help one design a better diet to help get leaner.  And maybe even some simple tweaks, like avoiding liquids with meals.  And there are things that go beyond diet, food, and supplements as well, like simulating altitude, or maybe moving to a higher altitude, if that’s an option.  I got lots more ideas, but this post is already long, maybe I’ll elaborate if others are interested.

[peater wabbit]

Good stuff Zach. I need to stop with the liquid with meals. I tend to do that and I need to stop it. I have just started doing some of what Cari suggests for losing fat and not weight. Haven’t done it long enough (a week) to see results yet but I need to get the fat off of my gut.

[Cari aka “Rinse & rePeat”]

I don’t drink liquids with meals either. It dilutes the digestive enzymes, and really slows down digestion. I think people that sip on coffee with a meal are on the right track, as bitter things stimulate bile flow.

 

[J.R.K]

One of the pubmed reviews I read, from 1992, was talking about the well known markers that are changed in obesity.  Cortisol is generally elevated.  Testosterone is lower in men, but slightly elevated in women.  There were some others mentioned in that review, but those were the big ones that stuck out in my mind.  I know Haidut was always talking about elevated cortisol in obesity.

These are excellent observations @Zack Vegas

Dr Peat talked about the fact that sugar metabolism is inhibited by glucocorticoid and rather than try to describe his thoughts I will post this from one of his articles. It aligns well with what Haidut and yourself have both observed.

The glucocorticoid hormones inhibit the metabolism of sugar. Sugar is essential for brain development and maintenance. The effects of environmental stimulation and deprivation-stress can be detected in the thickness of the brain cortex in as little as 4 days in growing rats (Diamond, et al., 1976). These effects can persist through a lifetime, and are even passed on transgenerationally. Experimental evidence shows that polyunsaturated (omega-3) fats retard fetal brain development, and that sugar promotes it. These facts argue against some of the currently popular ideas of the evolution of the human brain based on ancestral diets of fish or meat, which only matters as far as those anthropological theories are used to argue against fruits and other sugars in the present diet.

Honey has been used therapeutically for thousands of years, and recently there has been some research documenting a variety of uses, including treatment of ulcers and colitis, and other inflammatory conditions. Obesity increases mediators of inflammation, including the C-reactive protein (CRP) and homocysteine. Honey, which contains free fructose and free glucose, lowers CRP and homocysteine, as well as triglycerides, glucose, and cholesterol, while it increased insulin more than sucrose did (Al-Waili, 2004). Hypoglycemia intensifies inflammatory reactions, and insulin can reduce inflammation if sugar is available. Obesity, like diabetes, seems to involve a cellular energy deficiency, resulting from the inability to metabolize sugar.

[J.R.K]

One of the most impressive studies I saw was a long term study in hypogonadal men who were started on testosterone and also overweight.  They lost an average of 50 pounds, and kept that off for 5 years.  A later study (of the same group) showed they continued at the lower weight for 10 years.  I also saw a meta analysis of various testosterone protocols in overweight men, lasting from 6 months to at least 5 years.  Some men stayed the same weight, although most groups lost weight, and in the area of 20 pounds or more, at that.  Even the men who stayed at the same weight lost centimeters around their waist.

In addition to this, so called “viceral fat” (aka belly fat) is the most problematic, and generally the most unsightly, too.  But….. is visceral “fat” really fat?  Ascetis is known as fluid buildup in the abdomen.  Visceral fat generally comes with elevated inflamatory markers.  Could it be a sign of fatty liver?  An inflamed intestine?  Excess bacteria and endotoxin entering the bloodstream?  Poor digestion?

I wonder if there would be any data as to the type of diet the people that experience the visceral belly fat, as well as nutritional profiles with respect to sodium to potassium levels as well as magnesium and calcium. Micronutrients like selenium and molybdenum are needed in microgram dosages which is where I believe foods such as liver and oysters are beneficial if they are well tolerated, if they are not it goes without saying other food sources of these nutrients can be found with supplements in my opinion being the last option since focusing on one nutrient it becomes difficult to create a balance that would naturally be found in foods.
The ratio of the macronutrients protein, carbohydrates (and which types be it from grains, fruits, or refined sugar) and fats specifically saturated and polyunsaturated levels, would be helpful in determining the food intakes and the resulting impact on the testosterone levels. All of these factors do play a role in terms of the conditions  that manifested the resulting health levels, as well as subsequent stress hormone levels specifically in the case of visceral belly fat cortisol, which as I understand has a cascading effect upon estrogen, as well as serotonin and thus prolactin.

[Kevin007]

I’m also switching to Cari’s way of eating… the steak and jelly diet as I call it 🙂

I jest, but I’ve been attempting Rays eating guidelines for years with no real success.  And by success I mean higher metabolism and reduced belly fat.  Add in a couple bouts with Cancer and things get a bit more complicated –  especially around fat intake.

I’d say a typical day consists of greek yogurt and fruit/honey, one or two soft boiled eggs with sourdough or sprouted grain toast, and a mixed bag for dinner, I eat out a lot but try to stay away from PUFA as much as possible – so no salmon. I realized today that I probably don’t eat enough sugar with my protein.  I ate a whole chicken breast with very little sugar (maple glaze and some couscous) On occasion, I’ve gotten up to 98.4 degrees when I’ve had several grams of protein while drinking a real sugar Pepsi… now I wonder if the liquid is part of the problem.

So here are my thoughts and questions (stream of consciousness!)
– Is it 2:1 carb/sugar to protein?
– Should I stay away from dairy? I’ve been mucousy for the better part 2 decades.
– Why no fluids with food? I’ve ALWAYS consumed some sort of liquid with food
– I understand fat is burned by muscle, typically at night- does it make sense to
strength train (concentric only)
– How much dietary fat is appropriate (with or without having cancer)
– I’ve had sluggish digestion for a long time.  I rely on Cascara too much.
– What supplements are good? Thyroid, VitaminE, Aspirin, MethBlue? I’ve heard
cocoa and Inosine improve metabolism through mitochondrial repair – is that
something to consider (I have both)
– I have access to good sourdough bread, how much is “safe”?
– I tolerate eggs well, I buy the best range fed chicken eggs I can find- where can
I get “no grain/soy fed chicken eggs?
I’d love your opinions and thoughts on what I can do to improve my metabolism and general health.

BTW, I am definitely ADHD – so consistency and routines are very difficult for me

 

[Lilac]

“– Is it 2:1 carb/sugar to protein?”

 

I remember that Ray said he himself sometimes needed a 10: 1 ratio of sugar to protein. I think he said he needed a pint of orange juice to balance one egg–eggs being particularly good at dropping blood sugar.

I think I read Ray say a ratio of 1: 1 might be enough. This is different from person to person. Perceive, think, act.

I always try to have some carbs with protein. Then, often, 10 minutes later I feel a calling for more carbs. So I will have some fruit or juice or a sip of soda, trying to find the internal balance. Not that I have all the answers or am a walking ideal! LOL!

 

[peater wabbit]

I too have been trying the protein/sugar way that Cari advocates but I am trying to get the bulk of my protein from dairy and the bulk of my carbs from fruit. I drink a lot of milk and I like cottage cheese with canned peaches. I have pretty much cut out meat for now. I usually only have one 3 or 4 oz filet mignon a week. I already have lost an inch around my big belly. Sometimes I have brown rice that I have soaked before cooking. I adore brown rice and I often just have it in miso soup. I use eggs too mostly hard boiled. Keep on keeping on.

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