- This topic has 20 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 2 weeks ago by
.
-
Posts
-
“A new study published in the Journal of Nature Microbiology has found that coffee helps in supporting the gut microbiome. The research says that people who regularly consume coffee have higher levels of microbe because of the Lawsonibacter asaccharolyticus that gives them the ability to support the heart and brain.
Study author and professor Nicolo Segata of the Occupational Metagenomics at the University of Trento said that the single food having the biggest impact on the composition of the gut microbiome was—by far— coffee.“
Tarmander had a very successful log of such on the old RPF-
https://lowtoxinforum.com/threads/gut-protocol-for-insulin-resistance-metabolism-and-energy.33349/
He based it on a Ken Lassesen article, and Ken also apparently had a lot of success. I wrote a post recently on this forum giving an alternate take on the idea of “Antibiotic Resistance,” and what could be the success of this protocol. His protocol looks to span 18 weeks, and I would think any semi well designed protocol lasting that long would have a great impact on any hidden or long term infection, not to mention gut bacteria.
Ultimately, I think the standard idea of “Antibiotic Resistance” is flawed, and what it really stems from is a larger bacterial load, and that standard courses of antibiotics don’t contain an effective amount, or are too short, or both. At the same time, it would make sense in a longer term antibiotic protocol to include things that weaken colonies, like a biofilm disruptor, or iron chelator.
One thing that would probably be a great idea for any antibiotic protocol is a full iron panel prior to starting. E. D. Weinberg found in his first experiment with iron (and other dietary vitamins and minerals) that iron and iron alone could completely abolish the effectiveness of tetracycline. A high iron burden may be one of the big reasons behind so called “Antibiotic Resistance.”
I think you could even design a protocol like Ken’s using subtances that Peat spoke highly of, even without prescription antibiotics. Think Flowers of Sulphur, Activated Charcoal, Cascara, Antimicrobial foods (carrot and bamboo shoots), Coconut Oil, and a No Starch Diet. It would probably be good to keep a log if doing such. You might do AC twice a week, and do sulphur 3 days on, 3 days off, and if you were doing something like this, it would be good to keep track of what days you are on, so that you don’t miss your AC doses, or 3 days off of sulphur becomes 6 or 12 or whatever. Prescription Antibiotics like doxy could make the protocol more powerful, and I think many of the natural antibiotics and complements would be worth exploring, as well.
In a protocol this long, you might need to make some changes along the way, and that’s another good reason to have an initial written protocol, and a log along the way. That way, you can see if you deviated from your original idea, and also might be able to better pinpoint a substance that is causing problems for you.
If you dig around the old RPF, you can find people talking about successfully cleaning up their gut with longer antibiotic courses. Yerrang mentioned gut improvement after taking a 12 week course. The Beard also talked about success in this regard after doing multiple courses.
I’ve been thinking about this myself, and one of the biggest potential problems could be yeast overgrowth. While the danger itself may be overblown, I do think this is a potential problem. The macrolides have some anti fungal effects themselves, so they could be part of a longer course. Activated Charcoal would probably also be useful. Some foods, like garlic and caprilic acid (found in coconut oil) are antifungal, and the carrot should have some anti fungal properties as well. A no starch diet, with a fair amount of fructose, should also help. And Peat talked about Flowers of Sulphur being very effective against candida, and fungus in general. I think these things would probably be very useful, without having to resort to prescription antifungals, which tend to be more problematic than the first generation antibiotics.
“They have seen that the raw egg yolk killed viruses that other related chemicals weren’t able to destroy.”
– Ray Peat, KMUD: 9-20-13
Dr Sabeen Hazen is studying the micro biome and how it relates to different dis eases. Of note there is reference to a study done by the Chinese researchers into treating autism. She also talks about how SARS COV 2 was found in the micro biome and its persistence in the micro biome during illness.
One other point of note is how C Difficile has been around for ten million years and exists in the micro biome and how it gets out of hand in infections, and can become lethal.Listening to Dr. Hazen’s talk, I’m hearing the same “Microbiome” talking points that you hear over and over, with no solid data to back it up. A simple question for anyone who talks about the “microbiome” with any authority….. how do you measure the total microbiome load? Do you measure it in total number of microbes (which could be a number into the trillions), or do you do it by weight or mass, like grams or pounds? What is the process for doing this? This was the point I made in my other thread on an alternative idea behind antibiotic resistance. If we don’t know this basic starting point, then it really is pointless to talk about “microbiome diversity.”
Dr. Hazen also seems to suggest that you can sterilize your gut by cleaning your counter with Clorox (17:22). This is very obviously not correct, and I’m not sure what she was trying to say. Usually, when people talk about a “sterile gut,” it’s assumed to have happened by antibiotics. Usually, this is followed immediately by the claim of “gut dysbiosis.” We could probably coin this as the “Antibiotic Paradox.” But again, we really would need a microbiome load measurement prior to the antibiotic course, during the course, just after the course, and 3 weeks (or more) after the course, really get an idea of what goes on. I don’t think such studies have been done, and getting back to the first point, I don’t think they even currently have a way to do such a study.
Also she didn’t find “Covid 19” in any microbiome, but instead, found genetic sequences that are said to be associated with so called “Covid 19.” In itself, this isn’t shocking nor meaningful in any way, as there are well over 10 Million genetic sequences associated with so called Covid, and they keep on adding sequences by the day (which are said to be “mutations”). The “genetic sequence” is just another surrogate test, like the swabs she mentions. You can’t confirm the results of one surrogate test with a different surrogate test.
The Sterile Gut ideal is probably Ray Peat’s second most controversial idea, right after the claim that PUFA’s aren’t “essential.” However, just like Peat says it’s impossible to avoid PUFA eating real world food (even orange juice has milligram levels), it’s also impossible to have a sterile gut. All gut microbes produce toxic substances, with endotoxin, serotonin, and lactate being prime examples. Just because 100% sterility isn’t possible, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive for a cleaner gut with a lower overall microbial load, and favor species that also tend to have some benefits to offset the toxins they create.
A lot of very common foods could be considered both probiotics and prebiotics. Fermented foods like kefir and saurkraut are often considered probiotics, but the most widely consumed probiotic in the world (and US) has to be beer. Starches have to be the most widely consumed prebiotic (as both the starches themselves and other components within those foods feed bacteria). In the US and Canada, many starches are “fortified” with the most potent prebiotic known to man, and that being raw iron (aka, “ferrous sulfate”). It’s rarely considered that with the copious amounts of probiotic beer and prebiotic starch and iron, that modern Americans likely carry a microbial load that absolutely dwarfs more natural/primative living people like the Hazda.
We’ve all heard the phrases beer belly and wheat belly. Maybe it’s really “Bacteria Belly.” If the microbial load gets high enough, it could cause the gut to distend, just from the bacterial mass alone. A bigger factor is probably the inflammatory byproducts that are created, like endotoxin. Referring back to the Lassesen article, his 18 week protocol relied heavily on antibiotic substances (both natural and prescription) to shift bacteria populations, which almost certainly resulted in a much lower microbial load overall.
Zack: Interesting the idea of starch and added iron as prebiotics. I had not absorbed that idea previously. I avoid added iron carefully.
The way I look at it, bowel movements are the foundation of a clean gut. If that function isn’t right, metabolic problems ensue.
There is also this from Bodybuilder Dexter Jackson-
He states that after doing a lot of tests with gut specialists, that his distended gut (common among bodybuilders, and probably similar to beer/wheat belly) was due to “gut bacteria.” He doesn’t reveal everything he did (and says he is keeping parts secret till he retires) but says he used medical grade “prebiotics” and digestive enzymes, and the protocol got him to a flat stomach in about 4 months or so.
The term “prebiotics” can include things like Mutaflor and phages, things that can actually have a net antibiotic effect.
To the idea of iron being a potent probiotic-
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/14/9/1926
“The first studies that determined the impact of iron on the microbiota date back to the 1980s and were conducted in infants (Table 1). These studies aimed to analyze the effect of iron on neonatal gut microbiota over the first week [67] or the first three months of life [68]. Thus, the first study compared the microbiota of stool samples of infants (n = 23) from Utrecht (The Netherlands) who received a cow’s milk preparation supplemented with iron (5 mg/L), an unfortified cow’s milk preparation or breast milk in the prior 7 days of life. Results from this study revealed that infants fed with breast milk showed high level of Bifidobacteria and low levels of Enterobacteriaceae, Bacteroides, and Clostridia. Regarding the infants fed with cow’s milk formulations, those who received iron-fortified milk showed high levels of Enterobacteriaceae, Bifidobacteria and putrefactive bacteria such as Bacteroides and Clostridia, whereas those who received unfortified milk presented a slow increase in both Enterobacteriaceae and Bifidobacteria counts. These results seemed to indicate that iron may favor gut colonization and low iron content enhances the resistance of the neonatal gut to colonization [67]”
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
Author
